Follow up to yesterday's E34 M5 post (Long read)

"n54 & s38" (straight6)
10/01/2014 at 14:41 • Filed to: E34, M5 E34 M5, BMW, great deal

Hey guys. Here's my follow up to the E34 M5 that I posted about yesterday ().

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I met with the seller last night for about an hour and a half and examined the car pretty thoroughly. Shout out to TFritch for his helpful advice on yesterday's post. Here are some pics, followed by a breakdown of my thoughts:

" !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! " target="_blank"> Kinja'd!!!

My impressions of the car:

LIKES:

Dat engine. Oh. My. God. The engine is amazing. Doesn't feel at all like a car with 276,000 kms on it, which is obviously due to the fact that it's had a full rebuild, with no expense spared. The power delivery is incredible. There's less low down torque than the twin turbo N54 in my 335xi but above 4000 rpms, the car just flies and honestly feels faster than my car at that range. The engine is just incredible and feels like it's running strong. No smoke, weird idle, etc. It's definitely noisy but in a good way.

Not sure about HP numbers but I'm pretty sure it's more than stock, due to the intake, cat deletion and (not obnoxious) exhaust. Feels fast as fuck and would probably pull on my 335 above 4500 rpms. Sounds great too.

Interior is amazing. Getting into the car felt like sitting in a time capsule. Leather is well worn but zero rips or tears in the bolsters or anywhere on the seats, front and rear. Dash is clean and crack-free. All lights, instruments, etc. work. Only warning light is for the rear fogs which he'd noted in the ad. Updated with an E90 mirror with integrated garage door opener. Two sets of OEM BMW mats as well (winter/summer).

Everything works (seat heaters, windows, sunroof, etc.). Seats are manual so no power problems to worry about.

Exterior is fantastic. Paint is smooth and even. Exterior looks better than my 2008 335xi, probably due to the re-spray, done at the top automotive paint shop in town ($8K worth of receipts to prove it). Black exterior window trim surrounds are perfect: No peeling, fading or tears anywhere.

Seriously, just look at the pictures and tell me that the car looks 24 years old!

Two tiny stone chips on the whole car and a few small surface rust spots on the inside of the fuel door (more discoloration than real rust). Bottom of the driver door on the inside has some extremely light rust/discoloration. Looks like the paint wasn't quite applied thickly enough.

Zero rust in wheel arches. Zero! I stuck my hand inside the wheel wells at his behest and they were totally smooth. No pitting, roughness, holes or rust. Even if the engine was toast, the body alone would be worth a decent amount, it's so clean! I didn't look underneath the car but he assured me that it's also totally rust-free.

Tons of extra parts: Original intake with panel filter. Racing dynamics carbon fiber intake. Two sets of mats. Three sets of wheels (throwing stars with new summer tires), BBS RC090 Split Rims with new winter tires. I wouldn't even need tires for this thing. Also, each set of wheels comes with a full-sized spare so there are actually 5 wheels for these two sets. In addition, there's a full, pristine set of "turbine fan" wheel covers that could be swapped out for the throwing stars. I could probably get $1000 just selling these online: they look perfect! OEM BMW fire extinguisher mounted under driver's seats. Tons of manuals/service guides, etc. Full original BMW trunk tool kit. Binders full of part receipts and service invoices. So much stuff that I might need another car just to bring it all home with me!

Clutch feels good. No slippage, chattering, etc. Brakes feel softer than my E90 but work well once you put your foot into them a bit. Throttle felt sharp and linear.

Suspension replaced with a Bilstein and H&R Spring combo. Upgraded sway bars, F & R.

DISLIKES:

THE STEERING! I'm gonna be brutally honest: it kind of sucks. I've also never driven a car with a recirculating ball/steering box setup before. Now I know why they don't use these anymore. Compared to the sharp, precise rack & pinion setup in my E90, the steering just feels vague, dead on center and slow to respond off of center. It was also rather alarming at higher speeds: I felt like I was wandering across lanes. Rather spooky. The seller told me that part of the reason that the car is tracking like that is that it needs new front upper control arm bushings which he's already purchased and will be replacing next Monday. Really wish that these E34s had the R&P setup of the E30 of that era.

The other problem is that I'm not sure how much can be done about. The steering box can be adjusted but it's the original one and I'm not sure how worn it is. It can be replaced with one from a 535i but the M5 had a quicker ratio than any of the other E34 cars so I'm not sure it would be much of an upgrade. Finding an E34 M5 steering box is next to impossible: I actually just found one on eBay but it's for 1991-1993 M5s and I'm not sure whether or not it would fit.

Steering feel (too loose, wanders/tracks) felt like I was drifting through lanes (what was wrong with people and steering in the 80's/90's?) Can be adjusted to some extent but will pretty much have to live with it. Seller assures me that I'll adjust to it eventually but it's quite a contrast with my E90. Doesn't really match the rest of the car's character.

Short shifter was way, way too tight for my liking. I know people like a short shifter but this was crazy! I felt like I really had to muscle more than I'd like to change gears and because the distance between gates is so short, it made it tough to tell which gear I was in by feel. I'd want a taller shift knob to offset this to some extent.

Minor things: Tint peeling slightly at the top of the front driver's window. Slight clunk from rear when putting clutch in. Seller says it's due to a CV joint which he'll be replacing on Monday.

One other guy in town is really interested in it. He's in Peru right now and will be back Monday and has been emailing the seller every day so I need to decide before then. Told the owner I'd let him know by Friday.

THE SELLER:

Now I know this normally wouldn't be worth mentioning in a post like this but in this case, it's extremely relevant. To start off with, he's a really nice guy. Young Irish dude who's a mechanical engineer. He's a BMW fanatic and has done almost all of the work himself. He's owned 14-15 BMWs in his life, including two E30 M3s, six or seven E30 325is's and a 2002tii. Worked on them all himself. His dad, who lives in Ireland owns a vintage BMW specialist shop.

I feel like the dude is extremely trust-worthy. He pointed out a few minor things on the car that I wouldn't have even noticed (one exhaust hanger loose, front clip missing). He's done a bunch of work himself since owning it for the last few years, including:

Fan replacement

Fan housing shroud

Rear subframe bushings

Brake pads

E brake cable

Shifter bushings

Center bearing

More stuff I can't remember right now

Here's the best part: when he originally listed the car for sale, it had been in storage for a while. He took it in to get checked out and was informed of the following:

Weep (that doesn't drip) from the oil pan gasket

Worn engine mounts

Suspected CV joint on the way out

Loose rear exhaust hanger

Worn front control arm upper bushings

Because he's started driving it again and wasn't sure when it was going to sell, he decided to replace all of these things. Last week he ordered $1500 worth of parts to take care of all of these issues. His father is flying in from Ireland and they're replacing everything next Monday. Because he'd already listed the car at $9500, he's not charging extra to cover the cost of these parts and his labor. SO basically the few minor issues that it has are being taken care of before I buy it – at no extra cost! He's also going to try to adjust the steering box at this time.

The guy was so OCD about the car that it made me feel bad about not maintaining my car better and I do way better than most people! He knows everything about the car and sources on parts, etc. He wasn't pushy at all and didn't press me to make a decision right away. He also encouraged me to open it up when test driving it. Also had the car running already when I got there because he wanted to make sure that the oil was warmed before revving/running it hard. When I asked him about the valve adjustment, he pulled out an Excel sheet of the valve specs. All were within tolerance.

I also appreciated the fact that he didn't try to get me and the other guy who's interested in it into a bidding war against each other. He straight up told me that since the other dude is out of town, if I tell him I want to buy it before he gets back, it's mine.

I asked him why it was priced so low and he said it's because most people don't know what the car is and just think it's some old BMW. He's also had a bunch of idiots trying to trade him for Honda Civics with 18" rims, etc. and was tired of dealing with that. He even admitted that it's underpriced and had he known about the minor issues listed above that he's fixing next week, he would have listed it at $11000 but didn't feel that it was right to jack up the price after the fact, His main concern is that he wants it to "go to a good home". He's only selling it because he wants something new and is currently looking at an E46 M3.

Really nice guy overall. He's still in regular contact with the previous owner and told me to contact him if I ever have any questions about maintenance, etc. We ended up talking about cars for a good 30 mins and he emailed me some pics of the sweet BMWs he's owned previously (E30 M3, E30 325is, 2002tii, etc.). I feel good about dealing with him and, as such, I'm not going to try to negotiate or dick him around on the price. I feel that it's more than reasonable and if anything, it's underpriced for what it is.

CONCLUSION:

If I was ever gonna buy an E34 M5 in my life, I'd never find a better example for a better price. There's probably $40k+ worth of parts put into the car between the current and previous owners. In fact, as he said, it really won't need anything for a long time. Here are a few more details about the car, copied from when the previous owner had it up for sale. This should give you guys an idea of the kind of money that's been spent on this car over its lifetime:

1990 Euro E34 M5 – last of the handbuilt M cars

Lachssilber exterior with black full leather manual seat adj. interior

Excellent condition inside/out, mechanically and cosmetically

Has 60 000km on new factory engine and full mechanical rebuild, cooling system, fuel system, suspension and paint, body and interior trim replacement…

Meticulously maintained – large binder full of records, always using factory parts or better

Very recent full sevice including valve adjustment, all fluids (synthetic), engine re-seal (timing cover, oil pan, valve cover, cam seals, crank seals) , water pump, tune up, new diff, new windshield, new coolant and winshield fluid tanks, power steering hoses

Upgrades:

Turner chip, Xenon light conversion, Bilstein/H&R suspension, Nurburgring sway bars, SLS delete, Air pump delete, full set of factory forged M System II wheels with throwing star covers, spare set of BBS style 5s with winter tires, RD Sport carbon air intake, K&N air filter, IPOD/CD/AM/FM/Bluetooth/Sirius Alpine deck, M tech side view mirrors, new custom upholstered M tech II steering wheel, BMW fire extinguisher, Frank Fahey crank hub, VAC oil pump drive, Cat Delete and stainless X-pipe

Car needs nothing, sounds amazing, drives and handles great

Nicest E34 M5 around

MY PLAN:

I'm going to email him right now and ask if I can check out the car once more tomorrow. Barring any unforeseen problems, etc. I'm going to give him a deposit. As mentioned, he's going to fix all of the minor issues next Monday and I figured I'd let him enjoy the car for the rest of the week with these upgrades while his dad is in town. I'm going to see if we can do the deal next Friday. I feel like if I don't jump on this I'll regret it and if I was ever gonna buy one of these cars, this is the one to get. Only real issue is the steering but its still worth it.

Thanks for reading. This has taken me an hour and a half to write. Glad it's slow at work today. Please let me know your thoughts or anything else I should be aware of/concerned about, etc.

DISCUSSION (13)

505Turbeaux > n54 & s38
10/01/2014 at 14:45

good luck, thanks for sharing, and thanks again to TFritch who has been helpful to me as well with my Mercedes ideas and repair

n54 & s38 > 505Turbeaux
10/01/2014 at 14:45

Thanks. Yeah, this community is pretty awesome!

Brian Silvestro > n54 & s38
10/01/2014 at 14:47

YYEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSS

Kinja'd!!!

TotallyThatStupid > n54 & s38
10/01/2014 at 15:07

Buy it.

RallyWrench > n54 & s38
10/01/2014 at 15:24

Great writeup of the car, thanks for following through. Sounds to be worth every penny to me. The Excel spreadsheet of valve specs says it all. Guys like that are the kind you want to buy cars from.

The steering thing is a little weird, because while never as sharp as a rack, beyond the on-center vagueness they should be pretty responsive. It may indeed have a worn box. Also, any play whatsoever in any of the front end joints (tie rods, drag link, idler arm, or ball joints) can greatly affect steering feel and quality. This can be hard to catch unless you have them unloaded in the air & compress them with a pair of channel-locks.

The control arm bushings should help things considerably, because provided the alignment is correct, it shouldn't wander as you described. You should be able to let go of the wheel at high speed. Don't, but you could. How are the tires? Quality & age? Even wear? New tires can feel terrible when they're "green".

Ditch the short shifter without regret. Many people feel BMWs have exceedingly long throws, but I've always found the shifters to be great as long as the bushings are all good.

Looking forward to your "I've bought it" update :)

n54 & s38 > RallyWrench
10/01/2014 at 15:40

Tires on both sets of wheels are basically brand new so that may be part of it. The steering is the only thing that really turned me off about the car. I'm not sure if part of it is being accustomed to the R&P setup of modern cars. At this kind of mileage, do you think it's a safe bet that the steering box is worn? Is there anything that can be done/adjusted to compensate for this? Also, I was wondering whether you know if a steering box from a 1991-1993 M5 will fit this car? I found one on eBay although they're as rare as hen's teeth. Thank you once again for your help. Apparently, I'm not the only one you've helped out on here.

Vicente Esteve > n54 & s38
10/01/2014 at 18:39

It really is something special. Hope you do get it!

RallyWrench > n54 & s38
10/01/2014 at 20:54

If I recall correctly, the box can be adjusted, there's a jam nut & adjustment on top. I just checked the service info, and it confirms that. With that kind of mileage it's bound to be worn. The '91-93 unit should be a drop-in replacement. The US market only ever got '91-93 cars, which may be why it's listed as such. Happy to help man, that's a killer car.

n54 & s38 > RallyWrench
10/03/2014 at 12:52

Hey man. I decided to buy it. See this post for more updates & pics: http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/e34-m5-update-…

RallyWrench > n54 & s38
10/06/2014 at 12:11

Great! Been out of town, I'll read the update later on today at lunch. Congrats!

n54 & s38 > RallyWrench
10/06/2014 at 16:15

Thank you! Even more great news: he found and is currently installing a steering box from an E34 535i with only 60k kms on it. He said that there's far less play than the M% unit, which makes sense considering the 267k kms on it. This seller is seriously the greatest guy! I'm gonna slip him a few hundred above the price we agreed to for all of his work.

Derick > n54 & s38
12/27/2014 at 00:33

Nice. I have a repair history listed at https://m5owner.com . That might help you budget for what's coming.

n54 & s38 > Derick
12/27/2014 at 15:14

that's a sweet site. Thank you. Bookmarked. The nice thing is that the car came with a 2 inch thick binder of all the services/maintenance that's been done to it. Pretty much all of the weak points have been addressed or upgraded. SLS suspension, weak stock crank hub, recovered headliner, steering box replaced, timing chain tensioner updated. Full respray in factory silver too. Thanks for the link!